Comments on: E211, DNA, and science by press release http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/ Kicking ass in the name of science! Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:12:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Frank the SciencePunk http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-21924 Frank the SciencePunk Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:21:05 +0000 http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-21924 @20. Ree You've got a little mixed up on this. 1) You are correct in saying sodium benzoate can mix with ascorbic acid (vitamin C) to form benzene. This, however, is quite rare, and depends on things like heat and shelf life. (<a href="http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/index.php/site/about/153" rel="nofollow">see here</a>) 2) As far as I know, the additive HAS NOT been banned in Britain. 3) Sodium benzoate is added to food and drink specifically to inhibit yeast mould growing and thus spoiling the food. 4) Prof. Piper's research showed that free radicals increased in the yeast cells when they were dosed with sodium benzoate. He has not demonstrated a similar effect in humans. Moreso, there is no strong evidence that this effect, even if it happened in humans, would lead to the illnesses he lists. 5) Most foods and drinks that claim to have sodium benzoate removed have simply replaced it with another benozoic salt, e.g. potassium benzoate, which acts in a very similar manner. 6) The site you linked to is a standard hazard sheet - every chemical used in a lab will have something similar. It's important to take into account things such as how much you will come into contact with, for how long, and by which route (contact, ingestion, inhalation). The levels of sodium benzoate in food are controlled by law. Interestingly enough, many foods (cranberries, Parmesan cheese) naturally contain sodium benzoate, often at levels higher than those permitted in manufactured foods. 7) There is currently no strong evidence that E211 poses a risk. (ignore anyone citing the famous Southampton Study, it's not worth the paper it was printed on). Have some faith in regulatory industries such as the FDA and the Food Standards Agency (UK), they exist to keep you safe and healthy, and they've not indicated that E211 is anything except a useful additive. @20. Ree
You’ve got a little mixed up on this.
1) You are correct in saying sodium benzoate can mix with ascorbic acid (vitamin C) to form benzene. This, however, is quite rare, and depends on things like heat and shelf life. (see here)
2) As far as I know, the additive HAS NOT been banned in Britain.
3) Sodium benzoate is added to food and drink specifically to inhibit yeast mould growing and thus spoiling the food.
4) Prof. Piper’s research showed that free radicals increased in the yeast cells when they were dosed with sodium benzoate. He has not demonstrated a similar effect in humans. Moreso, there is no strong evidence that this effect, even if it happened in humans, would lead to the illnesses he lists.
5) Most foods and drinks that claim to have sodium benzoate removed have simply replaced it with another benozoic salt, e.g. potassium benzoate, which acts in a very similar manner.
6) The site you linked to is a standard hazard sheet - every chemical used in a lab will have something similar. It’s important to take into account things such as how much you will come into contact with, for how long, and by which route (contact, ingestion, inhalation). The levels of sodium benzoate in food are controlled by law. Interestingly enough, many foods (cranberries, Parmesan cheese) naturally contain sodium benzoate, often at levels higher than those permitted in manufactured foods.
7) There is currently no strong evidence that E211 poses a risk. (ignore anyone citing the famous Southampton Study, it’s not worth the paper it was printed on).

Have some faith in regulatory industries such as the FDA and the Food Standards Agency (UK), they exist to keep you safe and healthy, and they’ve not indicated that E211 is anything except a useful additive.

]]> By: Ree http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-21912 Ree Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:26:00 +0000 http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-21912 I've read some of the "Peter Piper" study and listened to the news story's about E211-sodium benzoate. Scary stuff! From what I glean, the sodium benzoate reacts with the (added) vitamin C in friuty drinks and soft drinks , etc. to form <i>Benzene</i> a known Carcinogen. This seemed to be the main concern. The latest news story is that the additive has been banned in Great Britain. I also read what you had to say on the subject and I must admit that I like the idea that yeast cells were harmed by the ingestion of this substance, but are the yeast cells the ONLY cells that were harmed or mutated? I've been looking for more info on this and haven't found the answers. Do the two ingredients E211 and the added vitaminC , in fact form "Benzene"? Are all cells that come in contact with this negatively effected? What is an acceptable level to ingest without fear of harmful effects? I ran across a site: <a href="http://www.tradezone.com/tradesites/sodiumbenzoate.html" rel="nofollow">tradezone.com</a> that has the breakdown of the product and effects. Good grief! What to think ? If you know of any clear-cut studies, I would be grateful. Thanks ! I’ve read some of the “Peter Piper” study and listened to the news story’s about E211-sodium benzoate. Scary stuff! From what I glean, the sodium benzoate reacts with the (added) vitamin C in friuty drinks and soft drinks , etc. to form Benzene a known Carcinogen. This seemed to be the main concern.

The latest news story is that the additive has been banned in Great Britain.

I also read what you had to say on the subject and I must admit that I like the idea that yeast cells were harmed by the ingestion of this substance, but are the yeast cells the ONLY cells that were harmed or mutated?

I’ve been looking for more info on this and haven’t found the answers. Do the two ingredients E211 and the added vitaminC , in fact form “Benzene”? Are all cells that come in contact with this negatively effected? What is an acceptable level to ingest without fear of harmful effects?

I ran across a site: tradezone.com that has the breakdown of the product and effects.

Good grief! What to think ? If you know of any clear-cut studies, I would be grateful.
Thanks !

]]> By: Frank the SciencePunk http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-20069 Frank the SciencePunk Mon, 30 Jun 2008 08:17:09 +0000 http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-20069 @18 md: The issue here isn't whether E211 can damage human cells in the same way, or cause ill effects (I would be wrong to dismiss that possibility out of hand). The problem is that Prof. Piper made claims about E211 and humans that his research can't support. We can't go round banning everything that has some vague, highly tenuous connection to being harmful. @18 md:
The issue here isn’t whether E211 can damage human cells in the same way, or cause ill effects (I would be wrong to dismiss that possibility out of hand).

The problem is that Prof. Piper made claims about E211 and humans that his research can’t support. We can’t go round banning everything that has some vague, highly tenuous connection to being harmful.

]]> By: md http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-20064 md Mon, 30 Jun 2008 06:30:38 +0000 http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-20064 as far as i know if the chemical can damage the yeast cells it can also damage human cells and it does make sense if u say that we are bigger than yeast so it wont harm us cause our cells are of similar size i.e. very small . now im not saying that they are out to kill us or anything but we should not discredit the research so off-handedly. as far as i know if the chemical can damage the yeast cells it can also damage human cells and it does make sense if u say that we are bigger than yeast so it wont harm us cause our cells are of similar size i.e. very small . now im not saying that they are out to kill us or anything but we should not discredit the research so off-handedly.

]]> By: Jodi http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-17450 Jodi Fri, 30 May 2008 20:11:18 +0000 http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-17450 Frank, Your Feb 27 entry was great for a stay at home Mom's afternoon chuckle. I will go back to my Diet Coke and call my husband who works for the Pharmaceutical Company about his major plot to rule the world. Here I thought we were just trying to make people feel better and live longer and with their diet pop, stay thing :) I guess I need more time at a University. Frank,
Your Feb 27 entry was great for a stay at home Mom’s afternoon chuckle.
I will go back to my Diet Coke and call my husband who works for the Pharmaceutical Company about his major plot to rule the world.

Here I thought we were just trying to make people feel better and live longer and with their diet pop, stay thing :)
I guess I need more time at a University.

]]> By: KevinG http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-11197 KevinG Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:21:05 +0000 http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-11197 @Frank, Brilliant! @Frank,

Brilliant!

]]> By: Frank the SciencePunk http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-11067 Frank the SciencePunk Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:28:37 +0000 http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-11067 @ FemaCamper So let me see if I have your theory down right. You believe that a preservative in soft drinks and fruit juices that prevents spoilage and food poisoning is <i>actually</i> there to make people sick, and every government and drink manufacturer in the <i>entire world</i> is in on this plan, so that they can carry out a eugenics programme, even though they have absolutely no way to control who drinks these 'pharmaceutical drugs' and in what dosage? In other words, the world government wants to kill people who drink Fanta. Riiiight. You're a fucking idiot. @ FemaCamper

So let me see if I have your theory down right. You believe that a preservative in soft drinks and fruit juices that prevents spoilage and food poisoning is actually there to make people sick, and every government and drink manufacturer in the entire world is in on this plan, so that they can carry out a eugenics programme, even though they have absolutely no way to control who drinks these ‘pharmaceutical drugs’ and in what dosage?

In other words, the world government wants to kill people who drink Fanta. Riiiight.

You’re a fucking idiot.

]]> By: FemaCamper http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-11065 FemaCamper Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:09:59 +0000 http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-11065 This is all part of a massive eugenics program to kill us all. Get us sick, have us take pharmaceutical drugs, get more sick, and die. This is all part of a massive eugenics program to kill us all. Get us sick, have us take pharmaceutical drugs, get more sick, and die.

]]> By: Frank the SciencePunk http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-3417 Frank the SciencePunk Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:28:30 +0000 http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-3417 Oh Melissa, despite my absolute love of alliteration, I have to point out that the MSDS for Sodium Benzoate paints it as a relatively benign substance: <p class="reply">Inhalation and skin contact are expected to be the primary routes of occupational exposure to Sodium Benzoate. Although ingestion (swallowing) of sodium benzoate may be harmful to laboratory animals, it is not harmful to humans in small amounts when mixed with food. Ingestion of large amounts may cause stomach pain, nausea and vomiting. Skin irritation may occur based on human exposure.</p> Oh Melissa, despite my absolute love of alliteration, I have to point out that the MSDS for Sodium Benzoate paints it as a relatively benign substance:

Inhalation and skin contact are expected to be the primary routes of occupational exposure to Sodium Benzoate. Although ingestion (swallowing) of sodium benzoate may be harmful to laboratory animals, it is not harmful to humans in small amounts when mixed with food.
Ingestion of large amounts may cause stomach pain, nausea and vomiting. Skin irritation may occur based on human exposure.

]]> By: Melissa Lee http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-3414 Melissa Lee Sun, 21 Oct 2007 04:27:57 +0000 http://www.sciencepunk.com/v5/2007/05/e211-dna-and-science-by-press-release/#comment-3414 Although this is a rather old blog- i have to add that it is so easy to access the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet on Sodium Benzoate and you can soon realise that even without it getting a peppering from piper he picked a potential product that poisons people anyway..! Although this is a rather old blog- i have to add that it is so easy to access the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet on Sodium Benzoate and you can soon realise that even without it getting a peppering from piper he picked a potential product that poisons people anyway..!

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